CVS Types 2F/30 2MP IMAGERS!
There is more to upgrade from 05 to 08 (release numbers in raw files) than meets a dull_eye. I finished most of bayer removal and accidentally hit the bond wires during cleanup with a qtip breaking 4 of them. That's when I took my 2F apart half hoping for a different imager - well its bigger and has black around sensor instead of blue. I wonder if it is better than a 07 FF3, or just a modified 06 FF2. Reminds me of IBM, maxtor drives, intel chips, and contact lens marketing schemes whereby a single product is produced and sometimes slightly modified to create a range of price points. Or to be fair in some cases -*test*-('")ing is used to place lower quality at lower prices. Are 2F chips FF3 throwaways because of dead pixels around edges? 2F is on left, 28 is on right. http://www.demanufacturing.com/pv2/www/brite_eye/blu2f.jpg

I wonder if change from 1288 to 1284 was kind of a screw up because just using center of imager would not give usual 4 reference bytes. Can someone verify if 1284 2F or 30 raws have characterstic low values in last 4 bytes or valid intensities. Forget the 6550s, and battery latches with screws, I want some more 6520 2Fs or 30s with bigger better imagers. Perhaps some 6550s have bigger imagers also. Please provide pictures if you find a bigger imager; although raw header with an 08 is probably best indicator.

insteresting does that mean if you take the lens assembly from the larger imager and mount it on the smaller imager that you would get an optical zoom of about 1.5x mabyee pushing the camera closer to a feild of view of a 50mm lens equivalent ? teslafreak or or you implying that the imager might be a 2mp and there throwing away the edges because of the memory constraints of the camera (squeezing 25 2mp raws would overflow memory at higher resloution) and mabyee the hardware is going to have to change before cvs can take advantage of the bigger sensor one -*test*-('") i can think of is to mount the lens from the larger on the smaller and if the feild of view doesent change you know there throwing away the edges

Lens assembly appears to be identical - probably just focuses on center of larger imager. To actually get larger images one may need larger lens assembly from an FF2 which might give 1.5 optical zoom on a 05 imager.

I'm so lucky today! I wanted more bigger imagers so I went looking initially thinking I might try to trade an unopened still packaged red from several months ago for 2 blues hoping for another 2F. First CVS was sold out. Second CVS only had latches with screws, but checked ad flyer and saw 14.99 with customer care card. Third CVS had plenty of reds without screws, took one to counter and clerk scanned a special $5 off coupon from behind counter and charged me $10.59. At that price I then grabbed another and almost bought it but decided to go to car and nerve pinch first one. Bummer it was a 2B, in frustration, I opened and pinched old one finding 30. I then took 2B back in and showed clerk nerve pinch asking if I could exchange it for a higher quality recycled camera. She pulled out a nice little box of 10 cameras with perfectly sized slots. I nerve pinched em all finding 8 red 2Bs, 1 red 27 and a blue 2F. I asked her if I could buy the blue, she paged manager, he called back, he asked why I wanted it, she started to explain nerve pinch and quality diff, I quickly piped up I just want it for experimentation, he told her to just give it to me. :o :D :shock: I now have 1 30, 2 2Fs, 3 2Bs, 3 FF2s, and 2 failed imager scrapings. This obsession needs to stop, I can't decide on a candidate for 3rd scraping. Do I waste time with 2Bs, continue with 2F that I took apart earlier, try an FF2 with continuous viewing. Or should I delve deeper into running FF2 firmware on 2Fs with lens assembly from a FF2 (BillW tried some button hacks, but I may have success with his new PV2Tool 2.10 take a picture). After only 2 hours of sleep night before last, I'm ready for some zs but it will probably be more like 2z2z2zff2zzz2fzzzz2222zzzzz.

A little math based on last weeks numbers in Questions topic on Wide black bands using 2F firmware on 28 camera: If larger 2F imager has 1630 (from sailpix's list for FF2), 28 has 1288 and 2F only wants 1284 then 1630-1284 = 346 so compensation should start just after pixel 173 and stop with 173 left on a 2F. If running on a 28 that would be 1288-173 or 1115 with last 4 being reference bytes. That is only off by one from what I documented in questions thread last week probably due to starting after 174 an even number of bytes. Looks like BillW returned my time machine with a few surprises. These special cameras might just have been a temporary adjustment to use up imagers made for radioshack FF2s but not used due to switch to FF3s.

so what you are saying? 2mp sensors only sampling the 1.1mp center portion of the imager due to firmware instructions? sounds like another mod (high rez mode) anyway yes you are obsessed with the cameras may i suggest you take two cameras and call me in the morning oooops asprin lol teslafreak

It is interesting that they look larger... Whatever the hardware difference, any extra sensor data appears to be completely lost by the time the camera creates a .RAW file. These cameras contain 1284-sample-wide CFA data in the RAW. If .RAW compression is hard-wired in the ASIC then that's probably close to unchangeable...

If it was hard wired, I doubt that wide black band would appear when running 2F firmware on a 28. Also how would you explain 170 00s. Note also that FF3 software runs fine on FF2 except for wide black edge bands. So firmware can tell ASIC where to start and where to end, but ASIC can not provide pixels that are not there and just returns 00 instead. I'd be willing to wager a 2B just to sailpix if he can come up with an acceptable proposed software enhancement as bait. A key question might be how wide is the raw produced by FF3 software on FF2. So easy to verify, but I really need those zs. On second thought I think I posted one of those raws a while back. Can someone download and look at header and CFA?

I couldn't find post but did find uploaded files (which I no longer had) on binaryweavers site on 5/14. Time machine is starting to warp. Here they are (notice date stamp) :wink: FF3 firmware on FF2 http://www.demanufacturing.com/pv2/www/brite_eye/IMG_0077.RAW http://www.demanufacturing.com/pv2/www/brite_eye/IMG_0077.JPG http://www.demanufacturing.com/pv2/www/brite_eye (date stamp list)

I awoke an hour ago after about 4 hours sleep. Here is a 1600x1200 Ultra Pocket 4 image taken with a free manager approved "experimentation" CVS Blue 2F from recycle box at CVS loaded with FF2 firmware! No need to bother with any of preceding posts. Sorry for quality, had to use external light held with shaking hand while clicking take a picture with other hand. I also had to remove shutter since FF2 firmware doesn't open it (aint one on FF2) - I have some good low value black 2mp images as well. FF2 firmware on 2F http://www.demanufacturing.com/pv2/www/brite_eye/IMG_0003.RAW http://www.demanufacturing.com/pv2/www/brite_eye/IMG_0003.JPG

Imager Identification: morcheeba found SCT-M033F on an original Ritz 27 using a microscope. I verified same on a CVS 28. On CVS 2F using a $10 100 power radioshack pocket microscope I found SC-IMG-0020-5. smalcamera.com lists model numbers as IM-013 UltraPocket 3 IMG-0020 UltraPocket 4 IMG-0042 UltraPocket 5

Cool... :D Looks like the new ImagerID=08 really is the 2.0 megapixel imager that's in the FF2. Your theory that they're using extra UltraPocket-4 imagers seems less far-fetched than I originally thought. :lol: (One must take the rantings of a sleepless engineer with extra consideration...) Or, maybe there is a plan to raise one-time-use hardware up to 2MP and this is just phasing in the hardware part. Here is dumped info from your "FF3 firmware on FF2" RAW file (above): SMaL RAW Decomp Test - rrt, 4/17/2005 - v0.96 file: C:\PV2 Camera\Images\Others\ff2firm_on_ff3_0077.RAW Header Info Header Size: 00C8, Version: 09 File Size: 000BCCA3 Thumbnail Image Off: 000000C8 Thumbnail Image Size: 00010000 Thumbnail Wid: 0118 ( 280) Thumbnail Hgt: 00DC ( 220) Thumbnail Img Mask1?: 0C Thumbnail Img Mask2?: 0C Compressed Image Off: 000100C8 Compressed Image Size: 000AA2F0 CMOS Sensor Wid: 07F0 (2032) CMOS Sensor Hgt: 05F0 (1520) Interpolation borders: top=8, lft=8, bot=8, rgt=8 Demosaiced Img Size?: 2016h x 1504v Finished Image Wid: 07D0 (2000) Finished Image Hgt: 05DC (1500) Firmware Ver: 6695 (?len=8) Hardware Ver: 06 HW Serial: 29 Imager Type: 07 Frame rate: 05F4 Num_dark Gamma: 03 Gain Code: 00 Image Avg: 09 Sat Count: 00 Top Bin Count: 7F Env Lighting: 00 Pre1 Img Avg: 00 Pre2 Img Avg: 00 Strobe Dur: 0000 IMGR_UI: 00 IMGR_ROWMASK: 00 EOF Offset: 000BA3B8 EOF Size: 00000008 Segment Cnt: 1 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x002F208E Decompress time: 1.65 sec Note that this RAW has the same image size as the FF3 RAW files - that has some implications: * RAW file size is controlled by firmware. In retrospect, that fits with selectable image sizes in FF2 and FF3. * The firmware is written to gracefully handle an unexpected imager size by padding the RAW CFA data with black sensor values. * We may be able to get higher resolution images from the type=2F/30 cameras - if optics aren't an integral part of current image reduction... * SMaL's patent application for compression is written as a hardware implementation for patent filing reasons rather than because hardware implementation is practical in product. Obviously the next experiment is to transplant FF2 firmware onto a 2F/30 one-time-use camera and see what we get. If the optics are setup to use the whole imager then it might work immediately - presto, 2MP camera! Then we'll have a reason to dig into the firmware and understand the changes so that we could mod existing 2F/30 firmware to capture more image. In any case - most cool... 8)

Duh... so you already tried my next idea. Here is a dump of info from your "FF2 firmware on 2F" RAW file: SMaL RAW Decomp Test - rrt, 4/17/2005 - v0.96 file: C:\PV2 Camera\Images\Others\ff2firm_on_2F_0003.RAW Header Info Header Size: 00C8, Version: 09 File Size: 0009E87F Thumbnail Image Off: 000000C8 Thumbnail Image Size: 00010000 Thumbnail Wid: 0118 ( 280) Thumbnail Hgt: 00DC ( 220) Thumbnail Img Mask1?: 0C Thumbnail Img Mask2?: 0C Compressed Image Off: 000100C8 Compressed Image Size: 0008BCDC CMOS Sensor Wid: 0660 (1632) CMOS Sensor Hgt: 04C4 (1220) Interpolation borders: top=8, lft=8, bot=4, rgt=8 Demosaiced Img Size?: 1616h x 1208v Finished Image Wid: 0640 (1600) Finished Image Hgt: 04B0 (1200) Firmware Ver: 6620 (?len=8) Hardware Ver: 06 HW Serial: 2F Imager Type: 06 Frame rate: 04D0 Num_dark Gamma: 03 Gain Code: 00 Image Avg: 1C Sat Count: 3F Top Bin Count: 7F Env Lighting: 10 Pre1 Img Avg: 00 Pre2 Img Avg: 00 Strobe Dur: 0000 IMGR_UI: 00 IMGR_ROWMASK: 00 EOF Offset: 0009BDA4 EOF Size: 000001F8 Segment Cnt: 63 EOF[ 0]: 00000000, 00000000 EOF[ 1]: 0010A59C, 00046420 EOF[ 2]: 0010CBFC, 00047110 EOF[ 3]: 0010CDC0, 000471D4 EOF[ 4]: 0010DF24, 0004779C EOF[ 5]: 0010E740, 00047A74 EOF[ 6]: 0010FF24, 00048238 EOF[ 7]: 00111EF4, 00048CA0 EOF[ 8]: 00113218, 0004931C EOF[ 9]: 001146E4, 00049A50 EOF[10]: 00115A04, 0004A0D8 EOF[11]: 00118508, 0004AF64 EOF[12]: 0011982C, 0004B5D4 EOF[13]: 0011B1BC, 0004BE48 EOF[14]: 0011D800, 0004CAEC EOF[15]: 001217C4, 0004DF6C EOF[16]: 00123F8C, 0004EC48 EOF[17]: 00124468, 0004EDD0 EOF[18]: 00125910, 0004F494 EOF[19]: 001298D0, 000508EC EOF[20]: 0012B0CC, 00051068 EOF[21]: 00136240, 00054724 EOF[22]: 0013BC94, 000561E8 EOF[23]: 00149BBC, 0005A548 EOF[24]: 001554A0, 0005DBDC EOF[25]: 00159AC0, 0005F0D0 EOF[26]: 0015BC20, 0005FAEC EOF[27]: 0015C760, 0005FE48 EOF[28]: 00166064, 00062BA8 EOF[29]: 0016B9A4, 000645B8 EOF[30]: 0016F964, 00065888 EOF[31]: 00171FA4, 000663D4 EOF[32]: 00172C64, 00066794 EOF[33]: 00173F84, 00066D30 EOF[34]: 00174C44, 000670F4 EOF[35]: 001765C4, 00067868 EOF[36]: 001785A4, 000681AC EOF[37]: 0017B8A4, 00069040 EOF[38]: 0017E538, 00069D18 EOF[39]: 00181838, 0006ABD8 EOF[40]: 00183824, 0006B50C EOF[41]: 001844D8, 0006B8B8 EOF[42]: 00188498, 0006CBB0 EOF[43]: 0018A478, 0006D5B0 EOF[44]: 00191738, 0006FA2C EOF[45]: 001956A0, 00070EA4 EOF[46]: 00195D58, 000710D8 EOF[47]: 001962A4, 00071294 EOF[48]: 00196A28, 0007152C EOF[49]: 00198534, 00071E10 EOF[50]: 0019E340, 00073D7C EOF[51]: 001A0B14, 00074AC4 EOF[52]: 001A4F40, 000761D8 EOF[53]: 001AD57C, 00079098 EOF[54]: 001AFAAC, 00079D70 EOF[55]: 001B1ACC, 0007A92C EOF[56]: 001B69BC, 0007C62C EOF[57]: 001B9A1C, 0007D77C EOF[58]: 001BA714, 0007DC48 EOF[59]: 001BBCA8, 0007E43C EOF[60]: 001C5A58, 00081B2C EOF[61]: 001C7328, 0008232C EOF[62]: 001C7FEC, 00082768 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0010FF17 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00111EE2 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00113204 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001146E2 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00115A02 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001184F7 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0011982B Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0011D7FE Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00123F8A Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00124467 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0012590F Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001298CF Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0012B0C7 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0013623E Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0013BC8F Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00149BBB Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0015549F Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00159ABF Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0015BC1E Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0015C73F Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00166063 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0016B9A3 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0016F95F Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00171FA3 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00172C63 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00174C40 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00178599 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0017B89A Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0017E536 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00181837 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0018381C Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001844D7 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00188497 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0018A477 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00191731 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0019569F Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00195D32 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001962A2 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00196A24 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x00198533 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x0019E33E Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001A0B0E Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001A4F3D Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001AD57B Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001AFAAA Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001B1ACB Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001B69BA Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001B9A1A Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001BA712 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001BBCA6 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001C5A56 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001C7326 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001C7FE5 Decoding past end of segment. Decomp addr = 0x001E6167 Decompress time: 0.73 sec All the "warnings" are notices that the decompression algorithm is reading past the end of "real data" when decompressing a segment. So... with a complete understanding of what's going on in the firmware we could (a) "upgrade" 2F/30 one-time-use cameras from 1.3MP to 2.0MP image size and (b) make sure we still open shutter on 2F/30 cameras. To be a clean hack I think we'll need an approach to modify existing firmware since there's no legal way to distribute new firmware for these cameras (unless it was developed from scratch!). While we're in there messing with the brain/firmware it would be nice to have live image display on one-time-use cameras - unless that depends on hardware somehow... (And I think not since live FF2 image is overlaid with image count, etc. from firmware. :-)) Developing new firmware from scratch is - I assume - huge. But, figuring these things to enhance the 2F camera would be an excellent start. It is ironic that the 2F/30 cameras were the "ugly ducklings" producing blue-shifted images. Now we may be able to make them better than the other one-time use cameras!

Look again - I didn't miss it for long! 8)