it seems to make sense to make it as crapy as they did, if they're not getting them back as much as they hope to, they'd want to make it cost as less as possible. but the fact you can't even view text on the screen is really crapy :roll: if they start using this display on the camcorders too, that would be sad. the main thing i'm sad about is no autobrite (if its true) this was the main reason the camera was so good to begin with. even the higher priced multi-use digital still cameras, from other companies, didn't have this, and this feature alone made this little camera take some really nice pictures. is the autobrite feature part of the ASIC or the Imager, or both?

I looked for these at my local CVS, but they didn't have them yet. To start on these suckers we're going to need a two pronged attack - figure out how to get a standard USB interface again, and then figure out the protocol/unlocking mechanism. USB: I think it's a good working theory that these cams still implement some form of USB, albeit non-standard. I'm thinking that they've done something simple. If you get one of these cams, it's probably worth familiarizing yourself with how USB devices enumerate to the OS, specifically on the electrical level. I'm thinking that there's a few things they might have done: -changed required pull-ups or put them into the cradle end. -removed either +D or -D from the cam, and provided it to the processing station by adding some circuitry in the cradle. -Added some DC component to +D and -D that needs to be filtered with a cap in the cradle. I think it might be useful to hook up a cheapie ratshack logic probe to the unknown pins and see if there's any activity when you apply + and ground, as well as hitting them up with a multimeter and seeing if anything odd pops out. Once we are succesful in getting the damn thing to enumerate, USB device information can be published here and then the command probing can begin! PROTOCOL: This is a long road, starting with the aforementioned probing and a flash dumping. (RE:probing and dumping... let's avoid the obvious jokes. ;)) Luckily we now have several members with the means to dump flash. Once the flash is obtained it will likely be pretty easy to determine basic answers to a number of questions, even without software disassembly skills:-Do the cams have a standard filesystem/disk image in flash? -What format are pictures saved in? -Where does the firmware likely reside? The answers to these will doubtlessly lead to other questions, and will likely lead to a disassembly effort on someone's part. SIDE INFORMATION: It would be great for any CVS employees to share any information they can legally share. (Ie. product training information they learn without signing an NDA, quality+resolution of images coming out of processing machine.) Do not lie to anyone or do anything that you're not supposed to do during the normal course of your job. Just keep your eyes open. ...oh God, I've written another monster post. Sometimes I just can't help myself. :roll:

well, one would assume that it uses the same pinout as the others, as they have not updating anykind of software in the processing stations. so there definately has to be something that is overlooked.

I went to buy a new one to replace the one I've officially bricked - and what do you know, they've pulled a disappearing act ("Where is the cow? Hidden right now!" maybe they watched my video...) at the closest CVS. Shelves that were completely packed with these things the other day are now back down to just a measly 4 of the older model PV2s. Perhaps they didn't get an updated dock yet? Tomorrow, I'm going to go to one of the other stores that had a good size stock of them. Oh, and I'm gonna bust out my good ol' o-scope to see if I can pick up anything interesting on the "unknown" pins. I should've tried that earlier, but the idea slipped my mind (and my o-scope is under a pile of crap in my closet).

Wow - I hope the el-cheapo LCD's aren't going to stick. These cameras make a nice source for a small TFT display. At any rate, I'm heading back to the local CVS again. Blast those guys at PD - I thought I had finally kicked the habit! BTW - looking at the closeups of the board, it appears that pin 10 may have a new purpose. Pin 6 is clearly Vdd, Pin 7 is clearly Vss, but pin 10? It appears to be connected to something with a via, but it's not Vdd. There is a whole ground plane sitting next to it. Pin 4 appears to still be a battery voltage line, and 8 & 9 are definitely N/C's now - so they have clearly altered the data interface. However, 1,2,3, and 5 are all connected to something via small via's. 2 used to be a ground, but that may have changed as well. So, we have weirdness on pins 1,2,3,5 and 10. Pins 4,6, and 7 appear to be unchanged. Perhaps they bring the signal out as a differential pair, and convert go single-ended in the cradle? That would definitely throw off shade-tree hackers. BTW - in existing cradles, 2 and 10 were both ground leads. Perhaps one or both signals are now used to indicate that the camera is IN the cradle? (grounding the line may signal the CPU to enable the USB interface?)

I bought another one... Removing the LCD and the lense assembly went horribly wrong on the last camera (thanks to some really strong double-sided tape), so I don't plan on doing that again. I'm going to post some pictures of what this camera looks like in its "unmolested" state, then I'll bust out the o-scope and see if I can make heads or tails of the new pinout.

New camera, more pictures: It's probably worth mentioning that the color on the LCD is actually a lot better than how my DSLR sees it. The display is lousy, but not that lousy. If you want to view the high-res pictures, just open the folder directly from my webserver.

i wouldn't be surprised if its also usb1.1 now i say this by looking at the high res pictures from your site, i don't see the pair of usb input board trace, spaced to give 50 ohms for proper usb2.0 specs if you look at the old cameras it had the trace specially spaced for this going all the way to the ASIC. and if there's also no autobrite, i don't want this new camera in my collection :(

Could larger shutter be CTO's invention? forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=2032" target="_blank">http://camerahacks.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=2032

Okay, I hooked up my o-scope and noticed the only thing coming out of the camera was DC. So, I got my trusty digital multimeter and here's what I found: When the camera is off, pins 1 through 5 read nothing (yes, pin 4 is no longer connected to the positive side of the batteries). When powered by USB OR turned on, I get the exact same voltages with a fresh set of batteries. And I double checked Pin 4 several times, it really is only outputting power when the camera is on AND it's a tiny bit less than the other 4 pins. Let's say for a moment we have to rule out Pin 4 since we KNOW the PureDigital dock is going to have to deal with the +3vDC from the Camcorder and older PV2s. That leaves Pin 1, 2, 3 and 5 - all defaulting to a "high" logic state (if that's the correct term). Is this possibly, Firewire? Or, are we looking at something truly odd that PureDigital did to a standard USB interface?

its possible PD isn't following the usb standard anymore, being they re-did the ASIC chip they could make it to use pull-up or pull-down resistors to have those 5 pads do combined data in/out somehow. just thinking out-loud

Solid info GotAnMP3! So many +3v lines... I wonder if two of them are +D (with no -D). Reading over the USB enumeration document I linked to previously, I believe that a device will be silent until it's electrically detected, electrically reset, and then successfully queried by the OS for it's information. Still, you might try grounding each one of the 5 lines and see if things change, as radarman suggested. You'd probably want to do that with a current limiting resistor... anybody EEish care to suggest an appropriate resistor size to use?